From scque at ymail.com Sun Nov 2 04:22:52 2008 From: scque at ymail.com (Sc'Eric (aka sc'Que)) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 01:22:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: pgh-goth-list Digest, Vol 62, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <987829.63581.qm@web59811.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Why wouldn't we be interested???? Events posts like this are the whole reason I'm signed up to PghGoth!? (The Manny'Batz rants are just bonus. =)??? ALL PGH PROMOTERS of dark music and arts should be promoting their events here!? ~Sc'Eric (StClg) --- On Fri, 10/31/08, pgh-goth-list-request at listless.org wrote: From: pgh-goth-list-request at listless.org Subject: pgh-goth-list Digest, Vol 62, Issue 19 To: pgh-goth-list at listless.org Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 4:00 PM Send pgh-goth-list mailing list submissions to pgh-goth-list at listless.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.listless.org/mailman/listinfo/pgh-goth-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pgh-goth-list-request at listless.org You can reach the person managing the list at pgh-goth-list-owner at listless.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of pgh-goth-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Masquerade 12 This Saturday at Ceremony (Tara Tempalski) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 15:06:26 -0400 From: "Tara Tempalski" Subject: Masquerade 12 This Saturday at Ceremony To: "Pgh Goth List" Message-ID: <3b502a470810301206g6f386002w303d1a2b1f67eeaa at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Not sure how many people on this list would be interested...but I figured I might as well pass along the info for the 12th Annual Masquerade Ball this Saturday at Ceremony, albeit last minute. --Tara Masquerade 12 - Midnight Mayhem Saturday November 1 2008 The Pegasus Lounge 818 Liberty Avenue Pittsburgh, PA 15222 w/ Special Guests: Autumn (80s inspired goth rock from Minneapolis) Faded Sympathy (sultry post punk from Columbus) The Burning Path (gloomy glam rock from Pittsburgh) Costume Contest at Midnight (cash prizes!) 18 to enter 21 to drink $10 advance $12 door Venue Info: Credit cards now accepted at bar Smoking is permitted Here is a brief schedule for the event: 8pm - Doors Open 8-9pm - Djs / Dancing 9pm-12am - Bands Play 12am - Costume Contest (cash prizes!) 12:30 - 2am - Djs / Dancing Former Night Shift member Dj Imperium and Dj Mass Hysteria (me) plan to deliver all the best spooky dance music you love to stomp and swirl to! We hope to provide an outstanding experience and look forward to seeing you there! You can still get your advance tickets ($10) at Eide's, Paul's CDs, Dave's Music Mine, Slacker, Wicked Discs and The Exchange Squirrel Hill! Click the links for more band info... Autumn: http://www.myspace.com/autumn1994 Faded Sympathy: http://www.myspace.com/fadedsympathy The Burning Path: http://www.myspace.com/theburningpath Also...if you're interested in regular Ceremony updates and information please check out... Ceremony MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/ceremonypghofficial Ceremony / Night Shift Livejournal: http://community.livejournal.com/thenightshift/ Ceremony Facebook Group: Members search for: Ceremony (Pittsburgh) ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ pgh-goth-list mailing list pgh-goth-list at listless.org http://www.listless.org/mailman/listinfo/pgh-goth-list End of pgh-goth-list Digest, Vol 62, Issue 19 ********************************************* From masshysteria at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 12:21:27 2008 From: masshysteria at gmail.com (Tara Tempalski) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:21:27 -0500 Subject: It is official. Message-ID: <3b502a470811040921p3decec1buc22861d32e59a67e@mail.gmail.com> On behalf of Th Night Shift it is with great sadness that I have to officially announce Pittsburgh's longest running dark dance night, Ceremony, is being shut down. The last night will be Saturday November 29th. The Pegasus Lounge has suffered a significant profit loss on Saturdays in the past year partially due to declining attendance at Ceremony. This is the primary reason for the management ending the night. The Night Shift is grateful for all of the support by Ceremony's loyal patrons over the course of the past twelve years, especially during the past two since the night moved from The Upstage to The Pegasus Lounge. Unfortunately, the support was just not enough to sustain the night. It has been decided to lay Ceremony to rest and not seek another venue at this time. However, there are several other options and opportunities for you to enjoy dark alternative music in a club setting. Nemesis ( http://www.myspace.com/nemesispgh): an all ages dance night at Club Zoo in the Strip District will launch this Friday 11/7 and will continue every Friday after that. Upstage Nation (http://www.myspace.com/theupstagenation): the free, 21+ dance night every Sunday at The Smiling Moose in the Southside. In addition, Distortion Productions (http://www.myspace.com/distortionprod) will continue to provide the same quality goth / industrial shows at Pegasus and other local venues for the foreseeable future. Don't forget, this month DP is bringing in these great shows at Pegasus... *THIS SATURDAY 11/8 ? 8PM* DJ Acucrack Acumen Nation Cyanotic Plus Special Guest: Sachem & Fetish Performance by Cleveland's Acid Rain $12 adv / $15 door (Dj TFS) *NEXT SATURDAY 11/15 ? 8PM* The Cruxshadows The Azoic iScintilla $15 adv / $20 door (Dj PhOenixxx) *TUESDAY 11/18 ? 8PM* *Distortion Production's 30th Show!* Nachtmahr SAM AlterDerRuin $12 adv / $15 door As always, advance tickets and more information can be found at Eide's Entertainment, Slacker, Dave's Music Mine and at Pegasus. Thank you to all who have supported and continue to support the local dark alternative music scene. As you know, without enough support, continually providing dark alternative entertainment is just not possible. Please do your best to support the scene as it continues to evolve. Details regarding the final night at Ceremony will be announced soon. I can tell you that the event will be free; as in, no cover will be charged that night. --Dj Mass Hysteria (Tara) From gwenix at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 09:51:36 2008 From: gwenix at gmail.com (gwen) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:51:36 -0500 Subject: As the Goth turns.. Message-ID: So, with Ceremony closing down, I've started to reflect on how goth has been changing for a while. I still remember in my early days as a gothling (babybat), people were still very much darker, dressing in different times, costuming much more than we've seen in the past decade. And when I've gone to Ceremony in the past few years, the people there are even different than our industrial practicality of '97, dressing more in prefab outfits bought at Hot Topic or online goth outlets. I don't think this is bad, just different. But the thing I've noted all this while is that goth has gotten brighter. The music is more dance-oriented, the outfits are more "perkygoth", and even the publications that I've seen have been more comic. Emo is the new goth, but it's really much more about the mopey than the morbid. This isn't bad, mind you, don't get me wrong, but I have wondered why we were so bleak back in the late 80's/early 90's than now. Then I happened upon this comment in Irregular Webcomic's #2085's annotations about the Cold War and the threat of Nuclear War: ..in the 1980s, we were worried about something that would affect us. That would kill us. At any time. With little or no warning. Live with that for any amount of time, and you do become somewhat inured to it. Life must go on, after all. We went to school, we learnt our schoolwork. It was no good arguing to the teacher that we may all die tomorrow - you just had to knuckle down and do the work. But in the back of our minds, we knew that we might die tomorrow. We always knew that. It never went away. And I realized that is what probably really inspired the original goths when they sprung out of punk, thus the scene was much darker for it. Thoughts? -- Gwendolyn R. Schmidt From brian.j.parker at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 10:37:43 2008 From: brian.j.parker at gmail.com (Brian J. Parker) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:37:43 -0500 Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 9:51 AM, gwen wrote: > So, with Ceremony closing down, I've started to reflect on how goth > has been changing for a while. I still remember in my early days as a > gothling (babybat), people were still very much darker, dressing in > different times, costuming much more than we've seen in the past > decade. [SNIP] > ..in the 1980s, we were worried about something that would affect us. > > That would kill us. > > At any time. [SNIP] > And I realized that is what probably really inspired the original > goths when they sprung out of punk, thus the scene was much darker for > it. Interesting, and something I thought about to. As I see it, goth has always been influenced by mainstream fashion (sometimes a few years behind), whether we want to admit it or not. The 80's goth look borrowed as heavily from New Romantic as punk; big hair, lots of makeup, and home-altered outfits were hardly exclusive to goths. In the 90's, after grunge brought casual dress to the stodgiest corporations, I saw more goths in black-jeans-and-black-tee outfits. Now I think we're reacting to the return of ostentation last seen in 70's disco. Of course, the prefab Hot Topic outfits are also just a sign of who is wearing them. Younger people are usually more daring, but less creative (often because they lack resources), in their dress. Other aspects of culture influence us: for example, the relative popularity of club culture (on a serious downswing for about a decade) and live music culture (I think due for a comeback as recorded music is increasingly considered valueless). I could be dead wrong, but it's interesting to think about. From jet at flatline.net Thu Nov 6 11:18:33 2008 From: jet at flatline.net (j. eric townsend) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 11:18:33 -0500 Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <491318D9.9090203@flatline.net> gwen wrote: > ..in the 1980s, we were worried about something that would affect us. > That would kill us. > At any time. > With little or no warning. Yeah, I was trying to explain MAD and Reagan and the 80s to some 20somethings the other day and they just didn't have a context for it. The worst thing terrorists could do is attack a city, and since they're in Pittsburgh, they didn't seem too worried. -- J. Eric "jet" Townsend, CMU Master of Tangible Interaction Design '09 design: www.allartburns.org; hacking: www.flatline.net; HF: KG6ZVQ PGP: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8 From epistemology at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 11:48:46 2008 From: epistemology at gmail.com (Jeremy) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:48:46 -0500 Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: <491318D9.9090203@flatline.net> References: <491318D9.9090203@flatline.net> Message-ID: Retro trends always come back thirty years later. Just wait until Pakistan starts to really go berserk. We'll be worried about a nuclear holocaust all over again. It'll be like when bell bottoms came back, except with more horror. On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:18 AM, j. eric townsend wrote: > gwen wrote: >> >> ..in the 1980s, we were worried about something that would affect us. >> That would kill us. >> At any time. >> With little or no warning. > > Yeah, I was trying to explain MAD and Reagan and the 80s to some > 20somethings the other day and they just didn't have a context for it. The > worst thing terrorists could do is attack a city, and since they're in > Pittsburgh, they didn't seem too worried. > > > > -- > J. Eric "jet" Townsend, CMU Master of Tangible Interaction Design '09 > > design: www.allartburns.org; hacking: www.flatline.net; HF: KG6ZVQ > PGP: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8 > _______________________________________________ > pgh-goth-list mailing list > pgh-goth-list at listless.org > http://www.listless.org/mailman/listinfo/pgh-goth-list > From gwenix at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 15:01:21 2008 From: gwenix at gmail.com (gwen) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:01:21 -0500 Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: References: <491318D9.9090203@flatline.net> Message-ID: Well, I also saw an article in one of the papers in the last couple days (drat, forget which one at this point, got distracted by election news) about how Russia is beefing up its missile defenses again, "For fear of attack from the USA." I've heard in a few other places that there might be a resurge of the Cold War with them again. But yah, Pakistan and India pointing nukes at each other has always been something I've not been happy about. On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Jeremy wrote: > Retro trends always come back thirty years later. Just wait until > Pakistan starts to really go berserk. We'll be worried about a nuclear > holocaust all over again. It'll be like when bell bottoms came back, > except with more horror. > > > On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:18 AM, j. eric townsend wrote: >> gwen wrote: >>> >>> ..in the 1980s, we were worried about something that would affect us. >>> That would kill us. >>> At any time. >>> With little or no warning. >> >> Yeah, I was trying to explain MAD and Reagan and the 80s to some >> 20somethings the other day and they just didn't have a context for it. The >> worst thing terrorists could do is attack a city, and since they're in >> Pittsburgh, they didn't seem too worried. >> >> >> >> -- >> J. Eric "jet" Townsend, CMU Master of Tangible Interaction Design '09 >> >> design: www.allartburns.org; hacking: www.flatline.net; HF: KG6ZVQ >> PGP: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8 >> _______________________________________________ >> pgh-goth-list mailing list >> pgh-goth-list at listless.org >> http://www.listless.org/mailman/listinfo/pgh-goth-list >> > _______________________________________________ > pgh-goth-list mailing list > pgh-goth-list at listless.org > http://www.listless.org/mailman/listinfo/pgh-goth-list > -- Gwendolyn R. Schmidt From manny at garfieldartworks.com Thu Nov 6 15:08:41 2008 From: manny at garfieldartworks.com (manny at garfieldartworks.com) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:08:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49619.70.17.173.58.1226002121.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> Sorry, but I have to disagree somewhat. First of all, most of the people commenting on here were not in the 80s scene because they were not old enough. Once again, as someone who grew up in high school and college during the 80s, as well as the person who presented the first national-act concert specifically promoted as 'gothic' (in 1988, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, and I hope you won't try to argue again), I think I can speak authoritatively here. Of course in the 80s there was nuclear angst, but that was dealt with in many ways. Some went dark and brooding, but just as many others went light-hearted and synthpoppy. I have plenty of records from both to tell the tale. The period in which this list was founded and which the people who are posting grew in was not the 80s, but the 90s 'neogoth' period. There was no nuclear angst because the Soviet Union had collapsed. If you remember, at first the scene was all about gothrock and ethereal (transitioning from the late 80s darkrock vibe), then it became all about industrial and finally about futurepop. Sure, the grunge and Lollapalooza effect was very important - the mainstreaming of alternative culture (and the Clinton-era prosperity which allowed everyone to spend so much money - remember that most of you are on the 2nd half of Gen-X, and during this period the purchasing power of that generation was realized) produced 'gateway bands' like NIN and Manson which fed into the underground the same way mainstreamed punkers like Green Day did. Also, there's one thing which you folks do not like to openly acknowledge and that is the influence of rave culture. With alternative culture going mainstream, rave was still one of the undergrounds misunderstood in the public eye (along with stuff like drum 'n bass, IDM and breakcore, which I believe are the last original musics that the West will ever produce) and I can guarantee you that some young teens who raved in mid-90s later became goths, and that is why by the second half of the 90s, the goth clubs were mostly actually sounding like pounding trancey techno raves. (futurepop and the like) So, in that late 90s period, alternative culture took one step further and not only became mainstream but totally commodified, like Brian noted. Which means that now, younger Gen-Y kids don't have to be creative at all - they have their subcultures (and the strictures of creativity within each) completely designed for them, in stores, in the media, and on the Internet. The only thing they can do is shatter these subcultures into ever more tiny subcultures, recombining and dissecting them in a postmodern cutup style. The steampunk/neo-cabaret movement is good evidence of that. As is the crazy patchwork of stuff on sites like Youtube. Western culture itself is pretty much at an impasse and the decline of this music reflects it, We went through the periods of Romanticism, Modernism and Post-Modernism (all of which are reflected in various strains of the goth-industrial scene, as well) and came out the other side at Nakayama's "End of History". But it's not really the End of History, just the end of the West's history as it proceeds towards creative death. Four civilizations (mainly: China, India, Islam, and Latin) will rise, hybridize with the West where appropriate, and battle for ascendancy with an outcome no one can reasonably predict. Right now the fringe of creativity lies in the combination and syncretization of cultures. You know how combinations of black music and European music basically created enduring and incredible American art forms from blues and jazz to country and rock and rap, etc? Well, in the future there will be many more developments across all these cultures (you're already seeing it with Desi, rai, Latin rock, etc) and that will be where the action and creativity is. The interest in ethnic cultures already seem to confirm this. People get excited about gypsy Balkan bands and Tuvan throat singers. People who would never see an avantgarde jazz show jump at the chance as soon as it's marketed from a standpoint of ethnicity (like incorporating Asian or African or Indian influences, etc). Goth chicks are becoming bellydancers, are they not? And yes, Brian was right about live music. It will rise in value once again as digital music loses it value and becomes disposable sounding and worthless. But the live experience will hopefully not just bring cookiecutter emo bands and adult folkpop to the fore - it will also hopefully bring these new and interesting hybrids to live audiences, so even as the world is getting smaller, more people can interconnect through shared live music experiences, etc. I look forward to that. Peace out! From jet at flatline.net Thu Nov 6 15:14:09 2008 From: jet at flatline.net (j. eric townsend) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 15:14:09 -0500 Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: <49619.70.17.173.58.1226002121.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> References: <49619.70.17.173.58.1226002121.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> Message-ID: <49135011.40206@flatline.net> manny at garfieldartworks.com wrote: > First of all, most of the people commenting on here were not in the 80s > scene because they were not old enough.[...] I think I can speak authoritatively here. Dude, you keep track of all of our ages? -- J. Eric "jet" Townsend, CMU Master of Tangible Interaction Design '09 design: www.allartburns.org; hacking: www.flatline.net; HF: KG6ZVQ PGP: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8 From manny at garfieldartworks.com Thu Nov 6 15:23:45 2008 From: manny at garfieldartworks.com (manny at garfieldartworks.com) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:23:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: <49135011.40206@flatline.net> References: <49619.70.17.173.58.1226002121.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> <49135011.40206@flatline.net> Message-ID: <49963.70.17.173.58.1226003025.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> Not specifically you. But most people on the list. Remember this list was founded around the 90s scene. Did I know you in the 80s? Maybe you were in some other city? > manny at garfieldartworks.com wrote: >> First of all, most of the people commenting on here were not in the 80s >> scene because they were not old enough.[...] I think I can speak >> authoritatively here. > > Dude, you keep track of all of our ages? > > > > -- > J. Eric "jet" Townsend, CMU Master of Tangible Interaction Design '09 > > design: www.allartburns.org; hacking: www.flatline.net; HF: KG6ZVQ > PGP: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8 > From epistemology at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 15:27:29 2008 From: epistemology at gmail.com (Jeremy) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:27:29 -0500 Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: <49619.70.17.173.58.1226002121.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> References: <49619.70.17.173.58.1226002121.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> Message-ID: > Western culture itself is pretty much at an impasse and the decline of > this music reflects it, We went through the periods of Romanticism, > Modernism and Post-Modernism (all of which are reflected in various > strains of the goth-industrial scene, as well) and came out the other side > at Nakayama's "End of History". But it's not really the End of History, > just the end of the West's history as it proceeds towards creative death. The idea that interest in "ethic cultures" in music as you put it (as if mainstream American is not an ethnicity) confirms that Western culture has developed as far as it can is just some amateurish ill-informed musicology. Half of the thrill of white America discovering rock and roll in the 50s was that it was a visit from a mysterious other culture, black American culture. And before that we had the Cuban music craze in the US. And before that... well it goes on and on. Look at the baroque and classical composers writing songs with names like Hungarian Danse etc. Toying with the sounds and fashions of foreign cultures is not a sign of the decline of western civilization. It's a sign that things are pretty much as they've always been. Also, his name is Francis Fukuyama, not "Nakayama." If you're going to cite a famous book at least learn the guy's first name before tell us that you're the only one "speak authoritatively" on the topic. On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 3:08 PM, wrote: > > Sorry, but I have to disagree somewhat. > > First of all, most of the people commenting on here were not in the 80s > scene because they were not old enough. Once again, as someone who grew up > in high school and college during the 80s, as well as the person who > presented the first national-act concert specifically promoted as 'gothic' > (in 1988, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, and I hope you won't > try to argue again), I think I can speak authoritatively here. > > Of course in the 80s there was nuclear angst, but that was dealt with in > many ways. Some went dark and brooding, but just as many others went > light-hearted and synthpoppy. I have plenty of > records from both to tell the tale. > > The period in which this list was founded and which the people who are > posting grew in was not the 80s, but the 90s 'neogoth' period. There was > no nuclear angst because the Soviet Union had collapsed. If you remember, > at first the scene was all about gothrock and ethereal (transitioning > from the late 80s darkrock vibe), then it became all about industrial and > finally about futurepop. > > Sure, the grunge and Lollapalooza effect was very important - the > mainstreaming of alternative culture (and the Clinton-era prosperity which > allowed everyone to spend so much money - remember that most of you are on > the 2nd half of Gen-X, and during this period the purchasing power of that > generation was realized) produced 'gateway bands' like NIN and Manson > which fed into the underground the same way mainstreamed punkers like > Green Day did. > > Also, there's one thing which you folks do not like to openly acknowledge > and that is the influence of rave culture. With alternative culture going > mainstream, rave was still one of the undergrounds > misunderstood in the public eye (along with stuff like drum 'n bass, IDM > and breakcore, which I believe are the last original musics that the West > will ever produce) and I can guarantee you that some young teens who raved > in mid-90s later became goths, and that is why by the second half of the > 90s, the goth clubs were mostly actually sounding like pounding trancey > techno raves. (futurepop and the like) > > So, in that late 90s period, alternative culture took one step further and > not only became mainstream but totally commodified, like Brian noted. > Which means that now, younger Gen-Y kids don't have to be creative at all > - they have their subcultures (and the strictures of creativity within > each) completely designed for them, in stores, in the media, and on the > Internet. The only thing they can do is shatter these subcultures into > ever more tiny subcultures, recombining and dissecting them in a > postmodern cutup style. The steampunk/neo-cabaret movement is good > evidence of that. As is the crazy patchwork of stuff on sites like > Youtube. > > Western culture itself is pretty much at an impasse and the decline of > this music reflects it, We went through the periods of Romanticism, > Modernism and Post-Modernism (all of which are reflected in various > strains of the goth-industrial scene, as well) and came out the other side > at Nakayama's "End of History". But it's not really the End of History, > just the end of the West's history as it proceeds towards creative death. > > Four civilizations (mainly: China, India, Islam, and Latin) will rise, > hybridize with the West where appropriate, and battle for ascendancy with > an outcome no one can reasonably predict. Right now the fringe of > creativity lies in the combination and syncretization of cultures. You > know how combinations of black music and European music basically created > enduring and incredible American art forms from blues and jazz to country > and rock and rap, etc? > Well, in the future there will be many more developments across all these > cultures (you're already > seeing it with Desi, rai, Latin rock, etc) and that will be where the > action and creativity is. > > The interest in ethnic cultures already seem to confirm this. People get > excited about gypsy Balkan bands and Tuvan throat singers. People who > would never see an avantgarde jazz show jump at the chance as soon as it's > marketed from a standpoint of ethnicity (like incorporating Asian or > African or Indian influences, etc). Goth chicks are becoming bellydancers, > are they not? > > And yes, Brian was right about live music. It will rise in value once > again as digital music loses it value and becomes disposable sounding and > worthless. But the live experience will hopefully not just bring > cookiecutter emo bands and adult folkpop to the fore - it will also > hopefully bring these > new and interesting hybrids to live audiences, so even as the world is > getting smaller, more people can interconnect through shared live music > experiences, etc. I look forward to that. > > Peace out! > > _______________________________________________ > pgh-goth-list mailing list > pgh-goth-list at listless.org > http://www.listless.org/mailman/listinfo/pgh-goth-list > From rapier1 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 15:36:12 2008 From: rapier1 at gmail.com (Chris Rapier) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:36:12 -0500 Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: References: <491318D9.9090203@flatline.net> Message-ID: <17aa36ad0811061236m561d3682vcb0932f406d5b62d@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 3:01 PM, gwen wrote: > Well, I also saw an article in one of the papers in the last couple > days (drat, forget which one at this point, got distracted by election > news) about how Russia is beefing up its missile defenses again, "For Well, mostly what they are doing is pushing short and intermediate range nuclear capable tactical missiles back to the frontier as a counter to the missile defense system we've been pushing into central europe. Russia, as always, desperately wants to maintain its influence it what it sees as it's backyard. > fear of attack from the USA." I've heard in a few other places that > there might be a resurge of the Cold War with them again. A lot of this is going to depend on oil prices. The Russian economy is heavily based on oil revenues. This was an intentional, and likely smart, move on their part even if it did scare a hell of a lot of people a few years ago. The run up in oil prices generated a huge amount of revenue for them and they plowed a lot of this back into their armed forces. This is allowing them to be a lot more muscular on the world stage. They still haven't modernized their hardware as reports from Georgia pointed out. However, they had enough money to actually keep their troops fed and armed for the first time in a decade. Medeved, I think it was around 6 months ago, announced that they were going to do a full hardware overhaul for all of their forces. However, the plunging oil prices makes this a *lot* more difficult for them to do. On the other hand, oil prices are going to go up again and this will provide them with the resources they need to do this. Its also possible (I'd say likely) that Putin will retake the leadership position (not that he actually left it) in the next year or two once Medeved gets the constitutional 'reforms' pushed through. So there seems to be every possibility that Russia will once again take up a muscular stance under an authoritarian figure. Back to the future baby. I guess Fukuyama was wrong again. So when someone says oil independence and alternative energy is a national security matter its true on multiple levels. Keeping oil prices depressed will do more to curtail the influence of Iran and Russia than much anything else. One might even be tempted to argue that a US led worldwide recession could have been an intentional move in a larger strategic game. I wouldn't argue that though - the people who would have been responsible for that really aren't subtle enough. Hi ya. From rapier1 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 15:55:22 2008 From: rapier1 at gmail.com (Chris Rapier) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:55:22 -0500 Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: <49619.70.17.173.58.1226002121.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> References: <49619.70.17.173.58.1226002121.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> Message-ID: <17aa36ad0811061255j42787c1ducbdc62650eb39229@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 3:08 PM, wrote: > So, in that late 90s period, alternative culture took one step further and > not only became mainstream but totally commodified, like Brian noted. > Which means that now, younger Gen-Y kids don't have to be creative at all > - they have their subcultures (and the strictures of creativity within > each) completely designed for them, in stores, in the media, and on the > Internet. The only thing they can do is shatter these subcultures into > ever more tiny subcultures, recombining and dissecting them in a > postmodern cutup style. The steampunk/neo-cabaret movement is good > evidence of that. As is the crazy patchwork of stuff on sites like > Youtube. Which is not necessarily a bad thing - revitalization of any artistic field usually comes with the integration of outside influences. You are completely correct in your implied critique though - which is that instead of integration we find a splintering. An ever increasing niching of styles which, due to the numerous factors, generally ends up cannibalizing itself before it has the opportunity to make any significant impact on the larger culture. > Western culture itself is pretty much at an impasse and the decline of > this music reflects it, We went through the periods of Romanticism, > Modernism and Post-Modernism (all of which are reflected in various > strains of the goth-industrial scene, as well) and came out the other side > at Nakayama's "End of History". But it's not really the End of History, > just the end of the West's history as it proceeds towards creative death. You mean Fukuyama not Nakayama. Not a major thing but its important to understand that the premise of 'The End of History' had more to do with the overwhelming ascendency of western civilization and American power sweeping away the old historical conflict paradigms of east v. west, class struggle, democracy v. autocracy, the cold war, and so forth ushering in a new era. So the analogy your trying to make is a little strained. I'd have actually tried to draw an analogy to the Mexican PRI - whenever you try to institutionalize the revolution you end up with the form at the expense of the spirit. Which is, as you pointed, pretty much what happened to both Goth and most of the punk sub-genres. I do understand the point you are making. I'm not quite sure we are there yet. Especially being that we have clear examples of this happening in previous generations. Just like some of use always gravitate to 80s music, our parents (depending on their age of course) would always turn the dial to the 50's dowop station, their parents never abandoned the Big Bands, and their parent stuck by the crooners of the 20s. What bothers me, and bothers me to no end, is that the current generation of teens and twenty somethings seem compelled to listen to the same drivel that we do. Its just weird and unseemly. Find your own damn music, and get off of my lawn! Overall though, as you know, I agree with you. > Goth chicks are becoming bellydancers, > are they not? Some but its not what I would call a given. It seems to be more common in this geographical area that others but thats not necessarily true on a wider scale. The west coast seems to have a stronger hip hop influence in some of their leading belly dancers. From manny at garfieldartworks.com Thu Nov 6 16:11:19 2008 From: manny at garfieldartworks.com (manny at garfieldartworks.com) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:11:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: References: <49619.70.17.173.58.1226002121.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> Message-ID: <50534.70.17.173.58.1226005879.squirrel@webmail1.pair.com> I typed "Nakayama" for the same reason you just typed "ethic cultures" below. Misspelled because typing quickly, plus "Nakama" was subliminally in mind from just having read online the Top Ten Pittsburgh Magazine nightspots list. Big whoop. Mainstream American is not an ethnicity, it is a nationality. I never said that American society had not absorbed cultural influences before. Of course it has. But it retained a definable character as well as a sense of progress. I said that 'Western culture' is at a standstill and decline as of now, it has run out of ideas. From manny at garfieldartworks.com Thu Nov 6 16:17:25 2008 From: manny at garfieldartworks.com (manny at garfieldartworks.com) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:17:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: <17aa36ad0811061236m561d3682vcb0932f406d5b62d@mail.gmail.com> References: <491318D9.9090203@flatline.net> <17aa36ad0811061236m561d3682vcb0932f406d5b62d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50562.70.17.173.58.1226006245.squirrel@webmail1.pair.com> . Back to the future > baby. I guess Fukuyama was wrong again. Of course he was wrong. We will never reach a perfect democratic utopia. Democracy isn't necessarily triumphant over every other form of government, let alone the exact kind that we practice, and neither is the free market system exactly as we practice it either. Plenty of variations exist, varying by area and culture. History continues, only the West won't be paramount anymore. Shit is multipolar, yo. Yes I forgot to mention the re-ascendacy of Russia via the BRIC theory postulated by Jim O'Neill years ago which recently became real trading bloc. Here it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRIC From gwenix at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 16:24:33 2008 From: gwenix at gmail.com (gwen) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:24:33 -0500 Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: <49963.70.17.173.58.1226003025.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> References: <49619.70.17.173.58.1226002121.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> <49135011.40206@flatline.net> <49963.70.17.173.58.1226003025.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 3:23 PM, wrote: > > Not specifically you. But most people on the list. > Remember this list was founded around the 90s scene. > > Did I know you in the 80s? Maybe you were in some other city? As a note, I was in a goth scene long before this list came into existence. Yes, I was participating in the goth scenes of other cities before '97, though, which is why you wouldn't have seen me around. So the assumption that I was basing claims on strictly 90's goth scenes fails. Plus, I was in High School during the 80's. I remember that decade well. (While I didn't actually get into a goth scene until '91ish, that was still early enough in the 90's to still be 80's, culturally speaking... plus the people I hung out with then were definitely 80's goths.) -- Gwendolyn R. Schmidt From rapier1 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 16:33:29 2008 From: rapier1 at gmail.com (Chris Rapier) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:33:29 -0500 Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: <50534.70.17.173.58.1226005879.squirrel@webmail1.pair.com> References: <49619.70.17.173.58.1226002121.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> <50534.70.17.173.58.1226005879.squirrel@webmail1.pair.com> Message-ID: <17aa36ad0811061333p39b72567ue618a43f83dc9e56@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 4:11 PM, wrote: > > I typed "Nakayama" for the same reason you just typed "ethic cultures" below. > Misspelled because typing quickly, plus "Nakama" was subliminally in mind > from just > having read online the Top Ten Pittsburgh Magazine nightspots list. Big > whoop. Cool your jets there killer. I was correcting an error, not attacking your mom. If anything I would have thought you'd have been upset with me saying you were using a bad analogy. > Mainstream American is not an ethnicity, it is a nationality. I'm not sure who you are replying to. I never actually said Mainstream America is an ethnicity. > I never said that American society had not absorbed cultural influences > before. And I never said you hadn't said that. > Of course it has. But it retained a definable character as well as a sense > of progress. > I said that 'Western culture' is at a standstill and decline as of now, it > has run out of ideas. Maybe you missed the part where I said I was agreeing with you. Here, I'll quote it for you... > > Overall though, as you know, I agree with you. From epistemology at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 16:37:31 2008 From: epistemology at gmail.com (Jeremy) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:37:31 -0500 Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: <50534.70.17.173.58.1226005879.squirrel@webmail1.pair.com> References: <49619.70.17.173.58.1226002121.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> <50534.70.17.173.58.1226005879.squirrel@webmail1.pair.com> Message-ID: Well it sure sounds like you're just rattling off on something you have no idea about. Fukuyama's "The End Of History" has nothing to do with music, nor does it have to anything to do with "running out of ideas" in general. If you had read the book you'd know that. Fukuama's thesis is about ideology in governance, and it has nothing to do with running out of good ideas. He merely asserts that liberal democracy used to be one of many options, but now it's the only one, and we appear to be happy with that decision, and also that Communism is fundamentally incompatible with democracy. He also follows along the Scottish Enlightenment line of thinking in regards to master-slave duality. It has nothing to do with pop music whatsoever. Not even close. If you're trying to draw some analogy here, I don't think there's one to be drawn. You're saying that Western culture is now looking outward for new musical ideas. Fukuyama's main point is that we've stopped looking outward for political ideas. Did you even read the book, at all? Seriously? On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 4:11 PM, wrote: > > I typed "Nakayama" for the same reason you just typed "ethic cultures" below. > Misspelled because typing quickly, plus "Nakama" was subliminally in mind > from just > having read online the Top Ten Pittsburgh Magazine nightspots list. Big > whoop. > > Mainstream American is not an ethnicity, it is a nationality. > I never said that American society had not absorbed cultural influences > before. > Of course it has. But it retained a definable character as well as a sense > of progress. > I said that 'Western culture' is at a standstill and decline as of now, it > has run out of ideas. > > > From rapier1 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 16:37:41 2008 From: rapier1 at gmail.com (Chris Rapier) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:37:41 -0500 Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: <50562.70.17.173.58.1226006245.squirrel@webmail1.pair.com> References: <491318D9.9090203@flatline.net> <17aa36ad0811061236m561d3682vcb0932f406d5b62d@mail.gmail.com> <50562.70.17.173.58.1226006245.squirrel@webmail1.pair.com> Message-ID: <17aa36ad0811061337t2f58d20ar8eb45da926467642@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 4:17 PM, wrote: > . Back to the future >> baby. I guess Fukuyama was wrong again. > > Of course he was wrong. Yeah, that's pretty much what I was getting at. From rapier1 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 16:39:23 2008 From: rapier1 at gmail.com (Chris Rapier) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:39:23 -0500 Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: <17aa36ad0811061333p39b72567ue618a43f83dc9e56@mail.gmail.com> References: <49619.70.17.173.58.1226002121.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> <50534.70.17.173.58.1226005879.squirrel@webmail1.pair.com> <17aa36ad0811061333p39b72567ue618a43f83dc9e56@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <17aa36ad0811061339l5db838e1u37deeddd76231484@mail.gmail.com> Shit, my apologies. I didn't know you were replying to someone else. I'm really sorry about that. On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Chris Rapier wrote: > On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 4:11 PM, wrote: >> >> I typed "Nakayama" for the same reason you just typed "ethic cultures" below. >> Misspelled because typing quickly, plus "Nakama" was subliminally in mind >> from just >> having read online the Top Ten Pittsburgh Magazine nightspots list. Big >> whoop. > > Cool your jets there killer. I was correcting an error, not attacking > your mom. If anything I would have thought you'd have been upset with > me saying you were using a bad analogy. > >> Mainstream American is not an ethnicity, it is a nationality. > > I'm not sure who you are replying to. I never actually said Mainstream > America is an ethnicity. > >> I never said that American society had not absorbed cultural influences >> before. > > And I never said you hadn't said that. > >> Of course it has. But it retained a definable character as well as a sense >> of progress. >> I said that 'Western culture' is at a standstill and decline as of now, it >> has run out of ideas. > > Maybe you missed the part where I said I was agreeing with you. > Here, I'll quote it for you... > >> > Overall though, as you know, I agree with you. > From jdecay at att.net Fri Nov 7 14:26:50 2008 From: jdecay at att.net (jdecay at att.net) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 19:26:50 +0000 Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <110720081926.18443.4914967A000502000000480B22216128369B0A02D29B9B0EBF970E0C0A0B06@att.net> I think that the scene is more Industrial these days, insofar as concert attendance is the barometer. With the exception of the major names like Voltaire, Bella Morte, and The Cruxshadows, most Goth shows I've been to lately have been underattended. Voices of Masada, The Last Dance, Apocalypse Theatre, Sunshine Blind, even Christian Death. Granted, concert attendance is down in general, but the drop seems to be deeper for Goth bands. In the mid 90s, when this list began, those last three bands routinely played to large crowds. As far as what Manny said, I agree that the Rave scene influenced the G/I scene in the late 90s. Just look at Front 242 these days. And three of the most popular Industrial subgenres, Terror-EBM, Power Noise, and Futurepop, all have a strong dancefloor focus for the most part. Heck, even locally, remember how Next Level X dissappeared into the techno scene? One particularly good change - I can't remember the last time someone tried to convince me that they were a vampire. Still, I miss some of the intensity and passion of the mid-90s that spawned so many zines, shops, local crafts / art, and commitment to the scene. J -------------- Original message from gwen : -------------- > So, with Ceremony closing down, I've started to reflect on how goth > has been changing for a while. I still remember in my early days as a > gothling (babybat), people were still very much darker, dressing in > different times, costuming much more than we've seen in the past > decade. And when I've gone to Ceremony in the past few years, the > people there are even different than our industrial practicality of > '97, dressing more in prefab outfits bought at Hot Topic or online > goth outlets. I don't think this is bad, just different. > > But the thing I've noted all this while is that goth has gotten > brighter. The music is more dance-oriented, the outfits are more > "perkygoth", and even the publications that I've seen have been more > comic. Emo is the new goth, but it's really much more about the mopey > than the morbid. This isn't bad, mind you, don't get me wrong, but I > have wondered why we were so bleak back in the late 80's/early 90's > than now. > From manny at garfieldartworks.com Fri Nov 7 15:01:43 2008 From: manny at garfieldartworks.com (manny at garfieldartworks.com) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 15:01:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: <110720081926.18443.4914967A000502000000480B22216128369B0A02D29B9B0EBF 970E0C0A0B06@att.net> References: <110720081926.18443.4914967A000502000000480B22216128369B0A02D29B9B0EBF970E0C0A0B06@att.net> Message-ID: <50059.70.17.173.58.1226088103.squirrel@webmail4.pair.com> All correct, except I don't even think industrial is that popular anymore because the younger scene has moved goth largely into the 'emo' category so the Hot Topic bands are where the action is, if there is any. Good comment about Next Level X! Also, I'm not sure about Terror-EBM, but Power Noise is definitely NOT coming out of the rave or techno scene - powernoise progenitors like Esplendor Geometrico were not techno, they were considered industrial. I would say that Powernoise today is an offshoot of industrial and noise but influenced more by beats and clubs. It's not big in the US, so it's certainly not the equivalent of the rave influence on Futurepop, which is nothing but trance techno with dark vocals. > I think that the scene is more Industrial these days, insofar as concert > attendance is the barometer. With the exception of the major names like > Voltaire, Bella Morte, and The Cruxshadows, most Goth shows I've been to > lately have been underattended. Voices of Masada, The Last Dance, > Apocalypse Theatre, Sunshine Blind, even Christian Death. Granted, concert > attendance is down in general, but the drop seems to be deeper for Goth > bands. In the mid 90s, when this list began, those last three bands > routinely played to large crowds. > > As far as what Manny said, I agree that the Rave scene influenced the G/I > scene in the late 90s. Just look at Front 242 these days. And three of the > most popular Industrial subgenres, Terror-EBM, Power Noise, and Futurepop, > all have a strong dancefloor focus for the most part. Heck, even locally, > remember how Next Level X dissappeared into the techno scene? > > One particularly good change - I can't remember the last time someone > tried to convince me that they were a vampire. Still, I miss some of the > intensity and passion of the mid-90s that spawned so many zines, shops, > local crafts / art, and commitment to the scene. > > J > -------------- Original message from gwen : > -------------- > > >> So, with Ceremony closing down, I've started to reflect on how goth >> has been changing for a while. I still remember in my early days as a >> gothling (babybat), people were still very much darker, dressing in >> different times, costuming much more than we've seen in the past >> decade. And when I've gone to Ceremony in the past few years, the >> people there are even different than our industrial practicality of >> '97, dressing more in prefab outfits bought at Hot Topic or online >> goth outlets. I don't think this is bad, just different. >> >> But the thing I've noted all this while is that goth has gotten >> brighter. The music is more dance-oriented, the outfits are more >> "perkygoth", and even the publications that I've seen have been more >> comic. Emo is the new goth, but it's really much more about the mopey >> than the morbid. This isn't bad, mind you, don't get me wrong, but I >> have wondered why we were so bleak back in the late 80's/early 90's >> than now. >> > _______________________________________________ > pgh-goth-list mailing list > pgh-goth-list at listless.org > http://www.listless.org/mailman/listinfo/pgh-goth-list > From synthdrome at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 19:52:42 2008 From: synthdrome at gmail.com (Shawn Rudiman) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 19:52:42 -0500 Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: <110720081926.18443.4914967A000502000000480B22216128369B0A02D29B9B0EBF970E0C0A0B06@att.net> References: <110720081926.18443.4914967A000502000000480B22216128369B0A02D29B9B0EBF970E0C0A0B06@att.net> Message-ID: yeah its weird for me to see it all as well.. sometimes id go to ceremony just to see where things have gone.. i remember being 18-19 20 or so and going to the ritz in nyc to see neubauten and revco and puppy.. i was fuckin scared. people were hard as hell. i was tall and shit as well but it was a very different thing to be "industrial " then. it seems that the whole ebm/exp/industrial thing in the late 90's took a huge turn toward trance and techno (most trance really). its a very different beast now. not as grimey sounding or looking, more flashy and almost at times harajuku-ish and definetly much different musiclly. i remember everyone had incredibly painted black leather jackets. some of the best work i have to this day every seen. ive actually had people ask me where ive purchased mine at.. ive just said "hot topic". (actaully its been 18 years of overlaying and scrawling shit on it) , but thats besides the point. it just seems a little overall softer, (minus power noise stuff- props!.) and more swallow-able. maybe im just jaded though but though id share with you all.. thanks. shawn rudiman On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 2:26 PM, wrote: > I think that the scene is more Industrial these days, insofar as concert > attendance is the barometer. With the exception of the major names like > Voltaire, Bella Morte, and The Cruxshadows, most Goth shows I've been to > lately have been underattended. Voices of Masada, The Last Dance, Apocalypse > Theatre, Sunshine Blind, even Christian Death. Granted, concert attendance > is down in general, but the drop seems to be deeper for Goth bands. In the > mid 90s, when this list began, those last three bands routinely played to > large crowds. > > As far as what Manny said, I agree that the Rave scene influenced the G/I > scene in the late 90s. Just look at Front 242 these days. And three of the > most popular Industrial subgenres, Terror-EBM, Power Noise, and Futurepop, > all have a strong dancefloor focus for the most part. Heck, even locally, > remember how Next Level X dissappeared into the techno scene? > > One particularly good change - I can't remember the last time someone tried > to convince me that they were a vampire. Still, I miss some of the intensity > and passion of the mid-90s that spawned so many zines, shops, local crafts / > art, and commitment to the scene. > > J > -------------- Original message from gwen : > -------------- > > > > So, with Ceremony closing down, I've started to reflect on how goth > > has been changing for a while. I still remember in my early days as a > > gothling (babybat), people were still very much darker, dressing in > > different times, costuming much more than we've seen in the past > > decade. And when I've gone to Ceremony in the past few years, the > > people there are even different than our industrial practicality of > > '97, dressing more in prefab outfits bought at Hot Topic or online > > goth outlets. I don't think this is bad, just different. > > > > But the thing I've noted all this while is that goth has gotten > > brighter. The music is more dance-oriented, the outfits are more > > "perkygoth", and even the publications that I've seen have been more > > comic. Emo is the new goth, but it's really much more about the mopey > > than the morbid. This isn't bad, mind you, don't get me wrong, but I > > have wondered why we were so bleak back in the late 80's/early 90's > > than now. > > > _______________________________________________ > pgh-goth-list mailing list > pgh-goth-list at listless.org > http://www.listless.org/mailman/listinfo/pgh-goth-list > From jet at flatline.net Sat Nov 8 11:45:42 2008 From: jet at flatline.net (j. eric townsend) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 11:45:42 -0500 Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: References: <110720081926.18443.4914967A000502000000480B22216128369B0A02D29B9B0EBF970E0C0A0B06@att.net> Message-ID: <4915C236.7040804@flatline.net> I was in Houston in the 80s/90s and our scene was pretty small and a mashup of skaters, punks, goths, industrial, cowpunk, experimental noise, etc. We only had one club to speak of (#'s) and and went to see just about any band that bothered coming to Houston if you had $$ (I usually didn't). JFA, Butthole Surfers, Thomas Dolby, Big Boys, DKs, Suicidal Tendencies, Revco, it really didn't matter, if any band bothered coming to town, you went to the show if you could afford. One thing that I think was the same as PGH and SF, tho: Shawn Rudiman wrote: > its a very different beast now. not as grimey > sounding or looking, more flashy and almost at times harajuku-ish and > definetly much different musiclly. i remember everyone had incredibly > painted black leather jackets. some of the best work i have to this day > every seen. Yeah, the DIY thing was really huge in Houston/Austin as well. I forget which band I saw that had "make your own tour-shirt" table, even. People made clothes, tricked out their own boots, etc. You also saw a lot more people in jeans/t-shirts than in leather or fetish wear, again, probably due to the fact we were all mostly broke. -- J. Eric "jet" Townsend, CMU Master of Tangible Interaction Design '09 design: www.allartburns.org; hacking: www.flatline.net; HF: KG6ZVQ PGP: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8 From gwenix at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 09:49:55 2008 From: gwenix at gmail.com (gwen) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:49:55 -0500 Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: <110720081926.18443.4914967A000502000000480B22216128369B0A02D29B9B0EBF970E0C0A0B06@att.net> References: <110720081926.18443.4914967A000502000000480B22216128369B0A02D29B9B0EBF970E0C0A0B06@att.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 2:26 PM, wrote: > most Goth shows I've been to > lately have been underattended. Yah, I was sad to see that very few people attended the Peter Murphy show a few months ago. -- Gwendolyn R. Schmidt From manny at garfieldartworks.com Mon Nov 10 17:27:41 2008 From: manny at garfieldartworks.com (manny at garfieldartworks.com) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:27:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: References: <110720081926.18443.4914967A000502000000480B22216128369B0A02D29B9B0EBF970E0C0A0B06@att.net> Message-ID: <50802.70.20.92.61.1226356061.squirrel@webmail12.pair.com> yes I heard attendance was lackluster at that. However, there was an sudden overabundance of G/I shows around that month (so many, in fact, that I cancelled a London After Midnight date that I was going to do at Altar Bar, which believe me their agent was not happy about....). Remember, I did Christian Death (over which this list had its usual dead Rozz vs live Valor spat), and Jim had at least 2 shows. Smalls did Hanzel und Gretyl as well. people only have so much money. plus it was on the North Side. (it probably would have done better in either Oakland or South Side). However, the publicity was certainly not lacking - both Aaron Jentzen and I wrote previews for the CP and PG. I wish I could have gone myself, but I had a show that night. Tears of cry. -mt > On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 2:26 PM, wrote: >> most Goth shows I've been to >> lately have been underattended. > > Yah, I was sad to see that very few people attended the Peter Murphy > show a few months ago. > > -- > Gwendolyn R. Schmidt > _______________________________________________ > pgh-goth-list mailing list > pgh-goth-list at listless.org > http://www.listless.org/mailman/listinfo/pgh-goth-list > From gwenix at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 10:45:38 2008 From: gwenix at gmail.com (gwen) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:45:38 -0500 Subject: Peter Murphy, was Re: As the Goth turns.. Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 5:27 PM, wrote: > > plus it was on the North Side. (it probably would have done better in > either Oakland or South Side). This is actually an interesting observation. Peter Murphy draws older crowds who generally have more access to cars (and usually own their own), so I'd think that changing the location a few miles to the east or west wouldn't be as damning for this sort of show. I've been to the New Hazlett Theater for other shows (even just last week for Attack Theater's interpretation of the Tinycrumb Ghastlies), and really like the venue. -- Gwendolyn R. Schmidt From manny at garfieldartworks.com Wed Nov 12 13:41:56 2008 From: manny at garfieldartworks.com (manny at garfieldartworks.com) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:41:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Peter Murphy, was Re: As the Goth turns.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49336.70.20.77.161.1226515316.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> Well, as I said, there was also a lot of other darkness going on and people only have so much money. It's also very probable that at this point, Murphy simply has only a limited audience in Pittsburgh. He's certainly no bigger than, say, people like Howard Jones, or Thomas Dolby, or Squeeze's Glenn Tillbrook, or The Fixx, who play places even smaller than the Hazlett, such as Club Cafe, the Rex, or Hard Rock Cafe. Such is the fate of '80s (and often, '60s and '70s) icons. Unless perchance they have a TV special on PBS or something. :) > On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 5:27 PM, wrote: >> >> plus it was on the North Side. (it probably would have done better in >> either Oakland or South Side). > > This is actually an interesting observation. Peter Murphy draws older > crowds who generally have more access to cars (and usually own their > own), so I'd think that changing the location a few miles to the east > or west wouldn't be as damning for this sort of show. I've been to > the New Hazlett Theater for other shows (even just last week for > Attack Theater's interpretation of the Tinycrumb Ghastlies), and > really like the venue. > > -- > Gwendolyn R. Schmidt > From terror_firma_sky at yahoo.com Thu Nov 13 16:07:41 2008 From: terror_firma_sky at yahoo.com (TERROR FIRMA SKY) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:07:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: DJ Hiem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <419552.80624.qm@web58707.mail.re1.yahoo.com> In case anyone missed them, here are links to two articles about Jim Semonik/DJ Hiem and his struggle with cancer. http://www.pittsburghcitypaper.ws/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A55302 http://www.side-line.com/news_comments.php?id=36986_0_2_0_C From manny at garfieldartworks.com Fri Nov 14 01:21:46 2008 From: manny at garfieldartworks.com (manny at garfieldartworks.com) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 01:21:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Wed Nov 26 - DARK MEAT Thanksgiving Eve G/I Fest Message-ID: <50993.70.20.77.161.1226643706.squirrel@webmail1.pair.com> Advance notice: Wed Nov 26 9 pm 21+ $6 31st Street Pub, 3101 Penn Ave., Strip District DARK MEAT a Thanksgiving Eve gothic-industrial fest featuring AGNES WIRED FOR SOUND THE BURNING PATH WRECKCREATION REQUIEM hope to see you there! From gwenix at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 09:35:00 2008 From: gwenix at gmail.com (gwen) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 09:35:00 -0500 Subject: DJ Hiem In-Reply-To: <419552.80624.qm@web58707.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <419552.80624.qm@web58707.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Will the CD compilation be for sale at Saturday's concert and/or at the final night of Ceremony? On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 4:07 PM, TERROR FIRMA SKY wrote: > > In case anyone missed them, here are links to two articles about Jim Semonik/DJ Hiem and his struggle with cancer. > > http://www.pittsburghcitypaper.ws/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A55302 > > http://www.side-line.com/news_comments.php?id=36986_0_2_0_C > > > > _______________________________________________ > pgh-goth-list mailing list > pgh-goth-list at listless.org > http://www.listless.org/mailman/listinfo/pgh-goth-list > -- Gwendolyn R. Schmidt From terror_firma_sky at yahoo.com Fri Nov 14 16:24:29 2008 From: terror_firma_sky at yahoo.com (TERROR FIRMA SKY) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:24:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: DJ Hiem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <364471.6595.qm@web58704.mail.re1.yahoo.com> At the moment we're still only confirming artists. I think we're looking to release it sometime this upcoming summer. We switched the coffee she normally drinks with TFS, let's see if she notices the difference. --- On Fri, 11/14/08, gwen wrote: > From: gwen > Subject: Re: DJ Hiem > To: terror_firma_sky at yahoo.com > Cc: pgh-goth-list at listless.org > Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 9:35 AM > Will the CD compilation be for sale at Saturday's > concert and/or at > the final night of Ceremony? > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 4:07 PM, TERROR FIRMA SKY > wrote: > > > > In case anyone missed them, here are links to two > articles about Jim Semonik/DJ Hiem and his struggle with > cancer. > > > > > http://www.pittsburghcitypaper.ws/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A55302 > > > > > http://www.side-line.com/news_comments.php?id=36986_0_2_0_C > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pgh-goth-list mailing list > > pgh-goth-list at listless.org > > http://www.listless.org/mailman/listinfo/pgh-goth-list > > > > > > -- > Gwendolyn R. Schmidt From manny at garfieldartworks.com Mon Nov 24 16:54:35 2008 From: manny at garfieldartworks.com (manny at garfieldartworks.com) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 16:54:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: DARK MEAT - this Wednesday @ 31st Street Pub! Message-ID: <49939.141.151.184.33.1227563675.squirrel@webmail12.pair.com> Wednesday November 26 9 pm $6 21+ 31st Street Pub, 3101 Penn Avenue in the Strip District "DARK MEAT" a Thanksgiving Eve Gothic-Industrial Fest featuring cyberpunks AGNES WIRED FOR SOUND http://www.myspace.com/agneswiredforsound goth-rockers THE BURNING PATH http://www.myspace.com/theburningpath industrial-rockers WRECKCREATION http://www.myspace.com/wreckcreation darkambient master REQUIEM http://www.myspace.com/requiem2872 special dark treats for those who attend. hope to see you there! From masshysteria at gmail.com Wed Nov 26 10:43:09 2008 From: masshysteria at gmail.com (Tara Tempalski) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:43:09 -0500 Subject: REMINDER: FINAL CEREMONY THIS SATURDAY! Message-ID: <3b502a470811260743i470a2354i8333b1b7c9b21391@mail.gmail.com> Just a reminder, The Night Shift is hosting the FINAL NIGHT OF CEREMONY THIS SATURDAY November 29, 2008!!! Please note: we will be starting at 9pm (instead of 10pm). The event will feature most of current The Night Shift djs, as well as former resident and founding Dj Badtz! Admission is FREE, 18+ only. 50 "Best of Ceremony" compilation CDs will be available on a first come, first serve basis. There will also be other giveaways and treats to show our gratitude for the loyalty and support our patrons have shown us during the past 12 years. We will be playing a video montage of over 1,000 photos taken between 1996-2008. If you have any you would like to submit, preferably ones that you did NOT submit for the 10 year anniversary, please send them to: ceremony.pgh.photos at gmail.com NOTE: IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO MAKE IT TO THE FINAL CEREMONY OR LIVE OUT OF TOWN AND WOULD LIKE A COPY OF THE COMPILATION CD AND VIDEO MONTAGE, PLEASE SEND AN EMAIL WITH YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS TO CEREMONY.PGH.PHOTOS at GMAIL.COM AND I WILL BE HAPPY TO SEND THEM TO YOU FREE OF CHARGE! Thank you and hope to see you there! --Tara (Dj Mass Hysteria) Link to flier: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3135/3023054706_25558cfa5d.jpg This message has been already x-posted to the pghgoth, thenightshift, penngoth, pittsburghscene LiveJournal communities as well as the Ceremony Myspace and Facebook pages. Thanks. :)