rock club question

[Mick]

I am combining emails here and not saying more about it. I feel Manny is 
taking this way too personal. Which was not the goal. He is trying to swap 
sell-out for political stance.



Sold out? Of course they did! Are serious? Every band wants to make it big. 
IN other words, every band wants to "sell out" and play large arenas. I am 
sure they do not care who owns them so long as they get paid. They say 
everything to get the fans knowing once they have them, well they have them. 
The majority of fans will stick around (buy the next album) because they 
like the sound or look. Few fans care about what the band stands for. While 
I do not agree with the actions of a band to get fans or fame, I expect it 
from most bands. I do not care what a band stands for personally. If I like 
the music (well lyrics more so) I like it. Who gives a fuck it they voted 
for Bush. They could have voted for Daffy Duck for all I care. It does not 
fucking matter to me. And I think most people are like this.



Those bands you mentioned are somewhat mainstream now. Sorry to say, but 
what was "indie" has gone big time. It is the new alternative of the decade. 
All those indie labels and bands are waiting for the knock of larger 
companies to buy them out. Deal with it. You have little say on what they 
do. Deal with that as well and get over it.



What is the difference between playing a political event and a band playing 
a CC owned arena or venue? Easy - Lack of a political message from the band 
about x, y or z candidate! Most people think the money goes to the band when 
you go to a show, just like when one buys CDs from a shop. They are not 
considering the political stance of the company who owns the venue. Most 
people do not care. And as I said, if the political stance is such a big 
deal start working to remove all companies supporting the right-wing from 
your use, not just one you have some issue with.



I feel I have to say this.

I am not trying to defend CC at all. But I think you are seriously allowing 
your hipsterness to taint your thoughts. I really think your problem is a 
lot of the bands you knew to be cool gained mainstream appeal and this is 
pissing you off. They are no longer underground or in your scene, so they 
are all sell outs. You cannot seem to allow yourself to like a band once 
they go big.

I do not involve others in my personal political views. I do not feel the 
need to. Thus the reason I do not tell people to boycott shite. If someone 
wants to by all means do so. Just do not expect people to just do something 
because you said so. Which is something you do a lot Manny.



Brian, about the Dixie Chicks - fans walked out of show, and thousands of 
right-wing fans sent letters to the promoter, label and various other places 
causing a conflict between the band, label and CC. This lead to them not 
being aired by certain stations.



--Mick



PS: People, please learn to remove extraneous email addresses. I do not like 
having dups of messages for no reason.





----- Original Message ----- 
From: <manny at telerama.com>
To: "Mick" <mick at freedminds.com>
Cc: <pgh-goth-list at listless.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: rock club question

On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Mick wrote:

> Manny, if you do not need to dig around to prove something, why should I?

Because you are the one with the computer and the time on his hands, not
I. FOr me, it is easy enough to prove that a band is collaborating with
CLear Channel - you look at the ad, if their name is in the ad then they
have sold out to CC. Simple enough.

> But I bet you love those vinyl records, don't ya.
what?

> You have a problem with Clear Channel? Why were you not making a stink 
> about
> this before it was too late? And yes, it is too late. They have the
> mainstream in the clutch. And why do you care if they do? They have little
> to do with shows you put on, or the bands you would listen to. Mainstream
> radio is cliché and boring, isn't it? Or at least that is what you think
> seeing how you so readily bash people for listening to it.  Mainstream is
> what Clear Channel buys. Let them have the mindless flock. Convert the
> strays and let them bring others to your side.

Does Fantomas, Le Tigre, Yo La Tengo & The Melvins
look like 'mainstream' to you? Does 'mainstream' include bands that draw
a couple hundred people or less? Not usually. But Clear Channel is paying
attention to smaller and smaller bands that SFX and Dicesare Engler never
used to bother with. That's why I'm making a stink now, as opposed to
before. When the big guys only bothered with big acts, it was not my
concern. But when they start trying to hog the monopoly on everything
(and believe me they are trying, their goal is to wipe all midsizers
out and then to move in on the smaller ones, which they have done in
many areas) then that's another story. Maybe you should know what you're
talking about before you spout your mouth.

> Just so you know Clear Channel has it set so that technically they are not 
> a
> monopoly. They allow enough of the market to be owned outside their
> interest.  They bought out those stations and media outlets fair and 
> square.
> Why not give shite to the people who sold them? They helped Clear Channel
> more than listeners. The people who sold did not need to sell but did. 
> Why;
> M to O to N to E to Y!
I'm not letting off the people who sold them off the hook any more than I
am letting off the entire generation of babyboomer upscalers who sold WYEP
down the tubes.
Of course money talks. You would expect it to.
But there is a difference:
Whoever sold their stations or promotion companies or venues to Clear
Channel was mostly average businessmen. No special integrity there.
You can't 'sell out' when you had no ideology to begin with other than to
simply make money.
But when you talk about bands who have been chanting anti-mainstream
slogans and supposedly adhering  to an independent ethic in their
lifestyles and dealings, and they are all speaking out against Bush,
but yet they can't resist the siren call of Clear Channel's money,
then it is the fault of those bands.

> You want to change what is heard on mainstream radio or what is seen at
> bigger venues, start one up. I am willing to bet you or your partners will
> sell when Clear Channel comes knocking with the millions they will offer 
> for
> it. That is if you can get enough people to listen to the station or 
> attend
> the shows.
No there is no way to change this. I don't have a ny money or fluence to
do so. THese bands, however, do. They are squandering their influence and
turning their backs on integrity to make a quick buck.

And you are wrong and you don't know what you're talking about.
There are plenty of bands and labels and evenues and booking agents which
ARE resisting CC's call and will continue to do so.
Even Elko and Joker seem to be stolidly resisting CC even though they
would probably be better off selling off their companies to CC.
So there are plenty of reasons and ways not to sell to them, unlike
what you claim.

I have no interest in reforming mianstream radio, it's simply impossible.
I just don't wish to see the underground taken apart, piece by piece, by
the lure of short-term lucre.

> Also, my mind is freer than yours will ever be, homey.
Not in an alcohol-stupored state, it ain't.