Turn Pale/Radio Berlin

[manny at telerama.com]

OK I am going to try to make this concise. The response to DarkThreads
comes first, then the response to Victoria.

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, DarkThreads wrote:
> Yep, you are absolutely right. I am TOO OLD to
> understand all these categories
I am probably around the same age as you. However unlike most people,
I have been paying close attention the whole time. That's all.

> unpolished. Maybe the White Stripes fall into
> that category but I wouldn't call them rough or
> unpolished. 
I would have to beg to differ.
They definitely *are*, they are purposefully image conscious about that,
that's their entire shtick, and why they have both mass and critical
appeal. (see: Nirvana) Because they seem more 'real' than most other
things an average person might have heard of.

> Okay so just in defense of manny and his
> "categories," maybe we do need them because they
> give us a language to help us talk/write about
> music and describe it to other people. 
This is true. These other people also either need to have a frame of
reference for these terms, or at least know enough to know they
*don't* have a frame of reference to be able to defer to those who do.
And I don't believe I was going out on any esoteric limbs here.
In any case, on a goth list, 'deathrock' should be a term for which
a lot of people have a frame of reference. If they don't, there's
an obvious shortcoming in said list's membership. It's easily
googled, in any case.

> Anyway, I like LOTS of different kinds of music,
> not just "ethereal." And I don't even like all
> the "ethereal" stuff. 
I didn't say whether you liked other kinds of music or not.
I'm sure you have a broad range of tastes like most people.
I was merely bringing up an example.
I just knew that you liked some ethereal, so I was using it as an example
of a genre that was 'grandfathered' into goth after the fact. Just like
I'm saying that the new wave of indie-goth crossover bands will be
grandfathered into goth very soon, if they haven't already. In some parts
of the country I don't think this is even an issue - Outburn has already
lumped them all together, for example. Pittsburgh is less progressive.

> not, regardless of the genre. I guess I'm with
> Victoria on this and I have two categories: stuff
> I like and stuff that I don't like. 
and that's fine. that's how most people are. it's when people like
Victoria get defensive and try to put me down because I can describe
and categorize a band better than just 'like/don't like' (there are
gradations of that, anyway - obviously if given a rating system you
wouldn't rate everything a 1 or 10 - you'd rate most things 5, so in
reality most things you would both like *and* not like!), while using
terms that she may or may not be familiar with, that the
problem arises.

The next e-mail addresses her statements directly.
Thanks!